Curse

upier · May 22, 2008, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Right, 1/4 second matters in PvE

Girlfriend, don't piss against the wind if I am standing behind you!
You know what can happen in 0,75 secs in PvE?
Stuff dies!
So lower cast-time = good because everything just rolls over and dies so fast that you might miss it. Best seen when my mesmer nuker heroes miss their target with Assassin's Promise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

5 seconds still sucks. This lasted 10ish seconds when everyone used it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Fact: Incoming is an underpowered version of save yourself.

My paragon heroes normally have an open elite slot.
And with two Aegises in the party already - Defensive Anthem was just a bonus. Incoming sounds like something fun to try now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

And there's facts and evidence that "Fear Me!" is crap against monsters because a majority of them have evidence of having over 80++ energy, with 4-8+ energy regen or more.

This matters very little. Simply because of this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

If a monster lived long enough to be completely E-denied, your team must be really really bad or using wand damage to kill stuff...

masta_yoda · May 22, 2008, 08:14 AM // 08:14

omg this is gonna rock HM uw a/e !!!! gonna own everything [except behemoths]

Zaris · May 22, 2008, 08:37 AM // 08:37

pve "playing very easy"

Longasc · May 22, 2008, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

You can read more about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)

I know this is all very obvious, but you can see where the problem is - how to balance it so that most of the community is in that "flow" zone.

If Anet is doing the right thing here based on their statistics and research of the community, it means there is a much larger percentage of new and unskilled players than there are skilled. I think that, too, is obvious. I suppose in order to keep the masses playing, they have to dumb everything down.

Your link and explanation about this "flow" thing is very good.
The bolded part is the dilemma.

Why does GW have so many people that are really terrible players?

To keep them playing, things have to be easier. But this is the problem.

People do not learn when they are not challenged. GW has no real learning experience.

Let's examine the 3 chapters:

Factions: People were quickly levelled up, they never learned the tricks of the trade. And then they had to fight exploding mobs, and if they were Assassins, they were not only screwed, but totally screwed. I would say for veteran Prophecies players the difficulty was a logical progression and just right, on the other hand!

Nightfall: The two new classes have much higher survivability even if you are dumb, the game is easier. But people can still get to the Realm of Torment and THEN they are handed their butt on a platter. We all know how Gate of Madness and many other missions there had to be toned down once or even several times. There was also no real learning curve in the campaign, it was in general easier than Factions. We had a starter training area similar to the isle of the nameless, which might have helped interested players, but many will simply have ignored it. And it cannot teach people basic game/teamplay either.

The Domain of Anguish is a beast of its own. At first it required specialized builds and experienced teams. People did not like it overly much! Then it was dumbed down, people still did not return en masse. But since the BEAR is there, it has become a joke.

Prophecies: Actually, that sever artery and conjure phantasm rocks in Presearing ... and using Mending till the teen levels...^^ it did not really teach people how to play GW. The desert missions did not prepare them for PvP either. The slow progression made people experiment, but it is for sure not viable for later chapters. People just had a lot of time to figure out strategies. And for starters without a clue, the difficulty was about right!

Later we got more and more skills, power creep happened, and then even more powerful skills.

We would not need all that if the playerbase would be mildly challenged and forced to think about better ways.

ANet should think of ways to gently force people to become somewhat better players in both pvp and pve. PvP has a steep learning curve and forces people to learn quickly. Some just give up. In PvE, people do not need to learn, they can chose to grind for the BEAR or use a popular and tested build of near equal power.

But ANet dumbs things down.

Then we have dumb game for the dumb masses. With little lasting value besides eternal "optional" grind and farming as the only thing left to do for those who like it.

A horror vision of how GW2 should not turn out. I am sure especially veteran GW players expect something better.

But if they cater to the very lowest common denominator in this way, the game will only get dumber to the point where everyone is bored and starts playing another game. We already have games that are like that, and they are better in this regard than GW can be due to balance restriction to items and whatsoever.

therangereminem · May 22, 2008, 08:45 AM // 08:45

onlything thast missing in update is ew , i mean they took that away form trappers becuz of sway and such and now we still dont get ew back to the way it was,

SirPaladin · May 22, 2008, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Personally, I believe that buffing every skill in PvE is almost as good as nerfing Ursan...

~ Dan ~ · May 22, 2008, 09:08 AM // 09:08

lol at HA shadow form griefers

Why did it take Anet 3 years to do this?

Sypherious · May 22, 2008, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Well, Mind Burn, Mind Shock, and Mind Freeze all needs buffs for PvE. They suck. Maybe they will consider this.

masta_yoda · May 22, 2008, 10:17 AM // 10:17

pve deserved a buff since loot scaling , good thing sf got buffed as hell

FrAnt1c² · May 22, 2008, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Aegis, bsurge, lightning orb nerf for pvp was uncalled for, as if the melee pressure meta isnt overpowered enough these days ...

Yawgmoth · May 22, 2008, 11:41 AM // 11:41

What a joke...

Clearly they haven't been observing the GvG meta for the last month, meta full of melee (3x derv or 3x warrior heavy pressure builds) and they're nerfing antimelee skills (aegis, ward, bsurge, enfeeble)
And one most expected but absent from the list nerf - Wounding Strike... where is it?

and for PvE
Shadow Form buff? This skill is more than good as it is now for farming and running, buffing it THAT much is just sick.
And Ether Renewal is going to be far better than at Proph release, just crazy. I was using the nerfed 7 seconds one in a certain farming build even now and it was still great, after buff its omfgimba even for PvE standards.

One thing I find missing from PvE buffs is Ward Against Melee, which was 10ene 20recharhe before 2 nerfs that hit it.

Holly Herro · May 22, 2008, 11:59 AM // 11:59

They need to revert Mystic Regeneration.

Make 55ing slightly easier, please! ;D

Antheus · May 22, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holly Herro

They need to revert Mystic Regeneration.

Make 55ing slightly easier, please! ;D

Why bother with that broken build, when there's perma Shadow Form?

Abedeus · May 22, 2008, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~ Dan ~

lol at HA shadow form griefers

Why did it take Anet 3 years to do this?

Wow. SF sins were griefing in HA even before Factions was released and before perma-SF with one sin (not counting QZ + SF, because it wasn't solo)?! Good gracious, someone should bust a cap in A.Net's ass ;o

Btw, the more I read how they dumb down PvE, the more I want to play more challenging games that are harder ;d

fenix · May 22, 2008, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Wow. SF sins were griefing in HA even before Factions was released and before perma-SF with one sin (not counting QZ + SF, because it wasn't solo)?! Good gracious, someone should bust a cap in A.Net's ass ;o

Btw, the more I read how they dumb down PvE, the more I want to play more challenging games that are harder ;d

I think you're mistaken if you think that you would want to find more challenging games that aren't Guild Wars.... there are some good ones out there

FrAnt1c² · May 22, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Wow. SF sins were griefing in HA even before Factions was released and before perma-SF with one sin (not counting QZ + SF, because it wasn't solo)?! Good gracious, someone should bust a cap in A.Net's ass ;o

Btw, the more I read how they dumb down PvE, the more I want to play more challenging games that are harder ;d

Lol @ WoW in your list of "Challenging" games, while complaining about crappy pve and crappy grinding and w/e.

Abedeus · May 22, 2008, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Lol I was talking about those MMORPG ones. Because, you know, I can just play some not only online games that are a lot better.

@frantic - because WoW high end > GW high end and wow grind > gw grind. Repetitive, but not boring grind > repetitive and boring, mindless grinding your ass to do anything.

unienaule · May 22, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

Really, none of these skills break the game. Yes, the Shadow Form revert/buff is pretty ridiculous, but guess what -- perma-Shadow was /autowin in most areas where it functioned properly already, it just required half a brain and knowing how to use it. Now it takes less and yes, more people (the turds that couldn't figure it out before) will throw it on their bars. I don't really understand why people are complaining about rolling PvE being too easy.

The reason is because Guild Wars PvE didn't become stupidly easy in one single update. It was a long, slow process that occured over the course of updates, campaign additions, the introduction of titles, PvE skills, etc, and there have been people who tried to fight against this trend the entire time. This is Yet Another Stupid Update(tm). So although it is now pretty much a lost cause, there are some people who continue to try anyway. That's why.

Supervillain · May 22, 2008, 02:22 PM // 14:22

To all the people saying "no need for PvE skills now cause these skills soooo overpowered:

Have I missed something?
The biggest buff of the lot was Shadow Form[E] and I highly doubt we will all go A/x or x/A with 12+ Shadow Arts to all be invun in PvE. It will still be used by farmers, not a huge impact because SF could be maintained anyway.

The Mesmer buffs aint too special either. I doubt I will use them even now. There are better elites and energy management skills in the same attribute.

The Discord and Defensive Anthem buff is 1 second. Hardly game-breaking.

We all knew the "Incoming!" and Light of Deliverance buffs were coming (they said) so what was everyone that is saying "oMgz we are all invunzzzz to dmg" doing when this info was released? 50% dmg reduction for 5 seconds every 20 seconds is fairly decent yes, but we all expected it. With SY this could make imbagon even more imba, but imbagon and Ursan have pretty much slayed the game anyway.

The Ether Renewal and WY buffs were the best of the lot imo. WY is now reusable in PvE again and now we can make a new ele build using Ether Renewal. Hopefully its as good as it looks

The Ritualist and Ranger buffs are pretty meh in PvE anyway. Spirits in HM last a few hits under fire.

EDIT: As a reply to Unienaule,
Guild Wars has never been a truely hard game since it was created years ago. It was slightly difficult at the start because most people just wanted to play the game. They didnt care about making builds or farming 24/7 for a rare sword (cause not everyone knew every item then). When builds started to be created and posted over the interwebz the game became alot easier due to most newbs getting "good" builds. Yes there is a power creep everytime a campaign is realeased but no skill is truely overpowered except for the PvE ones but like I said, the game was easy even before they was introduced. People could do DoA with ease (it just took a while) even before Ursan was alive.

To make the game more difficult, they should focus on updating the monsters, not the players. Look at the EotN monsters compared to Proph monsters. Some have a res, most have a monster only skill and nearly every group has a healer or two. If monsters got new bars, or even buffed versions of our skills (like this new update), the game would be slightly more difficult and being an Ursan or Imbagon wouldnt matter. The problem with this is that it would slay all the casual players who suck at the game already. This is what they should of done with Hard Mode (thats what I thought they was doing -_-, new bars not an extra skill)

FrAnt1c² · May 22, 2008, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

@frantic mindless grinding your ass to do anything.

Sorry, I'm not gay.